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Merlyn - About News-Posting - J R Stockton To Foot© J R Stockton, ≥ 2008-09-02About News-Posting. No-Frame * Framed Index * Frame ThisLinks within this site :- Merlyn Home Page - Site Index, E-Mail, Copying This Page :- Introduction :- News Convention FAQs Configuring for news:uk.* Links Acceptable Usage Policies News Servers Net News Tools Test Posting Cancelling a Posting Time Offset Setting Header Entries :- Anti-Spam Subject Line Cross-Posting and Multi-Posting Follow-ups :- Google 2005 News + Mail Language Composition Encoding :- Text Binaries Line Length and Wrapping :- Text Code Advertising Recommending FTP sites Student Questions Personal Identification Signatures Anonymous Postings Adage Newsgroup stuff is moved to Mainly About News-Groups, since this page was getting too big :- UseNets Non-Usenet Hierarchies Foreign Internet Elsewhere World Newsgroups FAQs, Lists, Creating E.U. Net News Non-National U.K. Net News In Britain, At Demon Creating Newsgroups RFCs Internet Standards URLs Newsgroup and article references News-related Mail matters :- Mail : Need for Postmaster Time Offset Setting Spelling My Mainly About Using E-Mail is derivedfrom this, and the separation may not yet be complete. Read that aswell.IntroductionI believe that your news postings will be better appreciated, andwill be more likely to generate helpful follow-ups, if you heed thefollowing suggestions. Some are firmly RFC-based; others include my personalinterpretations of what I believe to be generally acceptable inthe type of newsgroups that I use myself : please let me knowof any errors.News Convention FAQsMuch more comprehensive references than this page can be found inProf. Timo Salmi's Usenet Q&A,FrequentlyAsked News Questions andUsenetNetiquette (advice on creating new newsgroups, etc.);the material is now better obtained from theseWeb pages by him.There is another among the many FAQs in thedemon.answers newsgroup.See also the Big-8 newusersnewsgroup, and itsLinksPage.Current USEFOR thinking (work-in-progress) may be visible viamy Mainly About News-Groups.The UK News Committeesite.Microsoft have published news guidelines (now where?).Borland have specific guidelines fortheir own news hierarchy.On the use of plaintext and of quoting, see http://www.usenet.org.uk/ukpost.html;it is written for news:uk.*, which has the same conventions.Configuring for news:uk.*There is a periodic posting in news:uk.*,'Configuring your newsreader to post to uk.*', also inHTML.at www.usenet.org.uk.Actually, it is applicable to the rest of news:* too.LinksSee also :- Charles H. Lindsey : Useful Information about Usenet - especially within the UK for "What EVERY Usenet User should know" Jukka Korpela : The seven don'ts of Usenet Stan Brown : Playing Nice on Usenet Me : Mainly About News-Groups, Usenet Abbreviations and Acronyms, Personal Computer Tips, Mainly About Using E-Mail and On Reading Web Pages. Acceptable Usage PoliciesThe Acceptable Usage Policies of my service provider (Demon, U.K.)can be found on another page; formally,of course, they only apply to Demon customers, but their guidance shouldbe generally applicable.See also Abuse, and be warned.News ServersISPs generally provide access to a news server.Some hierarchies have private servers.There are public servers; the Web site fora commonly-recommended free one wasnews.cis.dfn.de.2003-07-27 : changes now seem afoot; see athttp://news.individual.net/ ?2004-02-16 : from this day, the old name is no longer publicly usable.2005-02-15 : seen : "They are going to start charging for theservice." - from April 1st.Net News ToolsBy default, all postings in most newsgroups were archived atDejaNews, unless otherwise marked.(Feb 2001: Google Newsbought Deja's data.)On the Web, News can be accessed in an acceptablemanner via Google Groups(but see in About News-Posting). Anyonecan use it to read; some form of registration is neededfor writing.There are many other tools, at sites like ??? ...?Test PostingIt is rarely appropriate to put a test posting, of any form, in anormal newsgroup - use one with ".test" in its name,and one as local as meets your needs.You should receive autoresponder replies (though of latedemon.test gives none, and uk.test only a couple),but these can be inhibited by putting"no reply" or "ignore" in the Subject line ... ?Cancelling a PostingThere is a Cancel FAQ, posted to news:news.answers by TimSkirvin.Any decent newsreader will allow an author to cancel a news postingof his own (or a forgery in his name); consult the menus and on-lineHelp. This means that a special "cancel" article, which should includeexplanatory text, will be launched and can cancel or supersede any copyof the original that it catches up with. Details may depend on thepolicy of the site where this occurs.Whether or not to cancel depends on the circumstances. If you noticean error just after posting, cancel; if you inadvertently multi-post,cancel. But if you only realise a day later, cancellation will belargely ineffective and it may be better to follow-up with a correction.IMHO, it will always be right to cancel a misplaced binary or off-topictext in a text group.A sysadmin is capable of cancelling his users' articles, and isentitled to do so in case of abuse (intentional or accidental).It is also possible to cancel articles on news archive sites.MS OE : Highlight the message in the newsgroup, then Messagement, Cancel Message.Time Offset SettingWhen writing news or mail, it is courteous to include the correctdate and time in your headers - see Time ZoneSetting (and my Summer Time and Time Zones).Header EntriesMail/News :- The "From:" line is supposed to show the true identity of the real, responsible, author. "Reply-To:" is available to indicate where a reply to E-mail should be sent, if different to what is in the "From:" line. "Sender:" is available to indicate who actually posted the message. In News, "Follow-Up:" indicates where a response should be sent ... If, for any reason, the above are not formally and exactly correct,it is essential that the situation be conspicuously and clearlyexplained in the body of the message.I am assured that, in such as "From" header lines, the form a.b<ab@c.d.e> is non-compliant with RFC822 (thedot between a & b is not allowed); use either"a.b" <ab@c.d.e> (evidently lawful) orab@c.d.e (a.b) (which parses as addresscomment) instead.Anti-SpamNowadays, it seems wise not to give a valid E-address in the "From:"line, since that line can be efficiently harvested. The "Reply-To:" lineis less easy to harvest, and it is well to use a deliberable addressthere for the convenience of people who wish to reply.If possible, however, the "Reply-To:" address should bedisposable rather than cherished.All addresses given should be ones that you have permission to use;and on no account should there be any possibility of the address beingvalid for someone else. That includes anything that looks like anaddress, such as a message-ID; and includes both cloaked and uncloakedforms.Subject LineThe Subject line should indicate the topic; and also, at the start ofa thread, the language. Putting just "Help", or similar, isnon-productive. However, make sure that the body of the message,independently of anything in the header, is self-contained and standsalone."Re: " should not be translated : RFC2822.Cross-Posting and Multi-PostingUsually, it is only necessary to put an article in a singlenewsgroup. However, if more need to be used, do cross-post a single copycorrectly by listing all of the relevant groups together,comma-separated, in the header of a single posting; any follow-up willthen normally appear in all those groups. Do notmulti-post duplicates of the same article repeatedly to differentrelevant groups, since that wastes everybody's resources - andtemper.See also Timo Salmi'stsfaqn, #14 :"What is cross-posting? How do I do it?";the material is now better obtained fromthese Web pages by him.Curiously, if posting irrelevant material, multi-posting isbetter.When initiating, post a single copy to as few groups as possible;when following-up, if necessarychange the set of groups to suit the new situation (bearing in mind thatsome readers may be happily following the thread in a non-optimum group,and people finding it in a new group may not see what has gone before).Avoid cross-posting contentious material to logorrhetic groups,which will generate cross-posted follow-ups ...See, for example, Jukka Korpela :Whyand how to crosspost, and David Stevenson :Multipostingvs Crossposting.Follow-upsTop-posting, bottom-quoting - bad.Bottom-posting, top-quoting - good.Selective quoting, then response - best.Before deciding to respond (by News or Mail) to a News (or Mail)article, especially one which appears to be a "misfit" to its newsgroup,it is wise to look at the full header of the article, to see what can belearnt about the originator.When responding in News to a previous posting, use your system'sFollow-Up facility, which should generate correct back-references;posting a new article with the same title would start a new thread andannoy other users. Change the title if the topic has really mutatedenough to require it. BUT be sure to start a new thread instead offollowing-up if your topic is truly new. Check which groups yourreply is going to.In follow-ups, whether News or Mail, CUT headers & signatures,PRUNE quotations,and preserve sequence. See news:news.newusers.questions -QuotingText in Replies orHow to post.That is to say, quote above each part of your replyas much of the earlier stuff as is needed to put the newmaterial in context, but no more; most readers will be able torefer to the earlier article itself, if need be. Never write onthe same line as a quotation, except in lists and notes; generallyleave a wholly blank line between. Do not quote the header or thesignature, unless it is relevant to do so.The preferred quote-line-introducer is ">" -see Son-of-RFC1036and GNKSA.In newsgroups, requests such as "pleasee-mail me with more information at ....... Do not replyhere because I do not read newsgroups, so I won't get the message."are generally considered highly offensive.If you want articles following-up to your current one to appear in adifferent set of newsgroups, edit the Followup-To: header linecorrespondingly. Then be courteous enough to refer to this in the text;"FUs set" or "FU:c.l.p.b,d.s" or similar generally suffices.Google 2005Many do not see how to quote properly in Google,since the changes of early 2005.Chris Croughton posted :Keith Thompson wrote in comp.lang.c, message ID <lnwtuhfy7d.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> :-If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't usethe "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on "show options"at the top of the article, then click on the "Reply" at the bottom ofthe article headers.Also search Google GroupsHelp Center for How can I automatically quote the previousmessage when I post a reply?.I've seen it suggested that the options offered may depend on theage of the article.Changed?In mid-June 2006, the action of "Reply" may have changed.News + MailIt should rarely be appropriate to enquire or to respond (unless sorequested) by both News and Mail; this imposes an unnecessary burden,particularly on dial-up users.If you do choose to do so, it is both courteous and important thatyou state at the beginning of both items that you are doing so;mail is normally read before news, and the recipient can then decide intime whether to respond in one or both media; otherwise, duplication maylead to confusion and extra work for the recipient.Transgressors who E-mail me are liable to seea reply in News along the lines of :-1. You have sent that in both Mail and News, without marking them as such:please read http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/news-use.htm#NandM.or2. In http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/news-use.htm#NandM ,there are strong words against those who send in both Mailand News but do not mark the duplication.or even3. I consider it quite unnecessary to send by unsolicited E-maila copy of a message which is being posted in News, and most discourteousto do so without marking the beginning of both copies clearly to thiseffect.LanguageIn "world" and "U.K." newsgroups, if it lies within your powers,write in normal English with proper spelling and layout; that is so mucheasier to read. On the other hand, if English is not your mother tongue,don't worry about it and just do your best. However, should you feelthat more people will properly understand what you want to say if youuse another language, then do so; but indicate it in the Subject.Remember (except in local groups, and not always even then) that Newsis an international medium. Do notassume that all readers are in your own country and so know your localabbreviations (e.g. IRS, 1099, MCC).It seems that the answerers are usually more language-confidentthan some questioners; IMHO answerers should consider adding aprecis (of Q&A) in English if answering in another language.READ your article before you post it, preferably more than once;and re-read an article that you are replying to.Put spaces between sentences; put blank lines between paragraphs;punctuate and capitalise in the customary manner.2002-02-16 : Acronyms are now inUsenet Abbreviations and Acronyms.The term *plonk* customarily stands for the action of kill-ruling anauthor, so that one no longer sees his or her newsgroup postings.CompositionSelect the newsgroup carefully and correctly.If you have nothing constructive to write, please have the courtesyto write nothing.EncodingExcept in some foreign-language hierarchies, news should be posted asplain ASCII text; for this, a simple rule is to use only those characterson a US PC keyboard (as UK, omitting Shift-3 and Shift-`). For theconvenience of those using intelligent news readers, do not claim inyour header that you are using a less common character set than is neededto accommodate the characters you use. For example, claiming"Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined" or"Content-Type: text/plain; charset=euc-kr"for an ASCII posting is an annoyance when Turnpike insists on pointingit out."Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii" is no problem.TextIn non-binary groups, you can only rely on the characters in theASCII-7 set (the U.S. keyboard set) being properly received. Do not postencoded stuff; watch out for systems which MIME-encode some characters,so that for example "=" is sent as "=3D" and "£" as "=A3"; mostreaders will not decode this for you.If you have inadvertently saved text in that format, try my DEMIMEprogram (improved, Jan 2002) in myprograms directory.To be sorted out : In News (and in Mail unless both ends are knownto have better capability) avoid theU.K. currency symbol "£", which does not travel reliably; use GBP,which is the ISO standard abbreviation, instead.Do not post raw Web pages; so do not post HTML, unless discussing theHTML language.Some wretched Microsoft product can post in duplicate, text/plain andtext/html, which is almost as annoying - be sure only to post plain textin News.BinariesPosting anything other than plain text is offensive;posting encoded material is particularly so.The charters of most newsgroups ban binary postings; note that wordprocessor output, "attachments" and "enclosures" are frequentlyimplemented as binary. Indeed posting a uuencoded binary to any non-binary newsgroup is a breach of Demon's News AUP (Acceptable Use Policy), and will cause a warning, account suspension, and account termination for first, second and third offences respectively. John F Hall : jfhall@avondale.demon.co.ukLine Length and WrappingTextText is easier to read if the lines are of no more than moderatelength; convention is that text lines should not normally exceed about70-72 characters.Wrap your text with hard <CR><LF> at about70 characters/line,and then it can be displayed on standardscreens and moderately quoted without exceeding 80 characters.It is therefore best to compose using a non-proportional font.Signatures, which should not be quoted, can go up to 79 characters.Put blank lines between your paragraphs, and do so reasonablyfrequently. Put them also after quoted material.CodeCode should be indented to show its structure.Do not allow code to be machine-wrapped; and, to reduce the problem,use a unit of say two spaces rather than tab when indenting to show codestructure.AdvertisingCommercial advertising is unwelcome,discouraged or banned in most newsgroups.Private for-sale advertising, except in specialist, local,newsgroups, is generally anti-social; the benefit to the buyer andseller is greatly outweighed by the total cost to all the rest ofus.Not only are "pyramid" schemes illegal in the better-run countries,but the normal result of such a posting in News is that the poster'sservice provider receives numerous E-mails calling for the closure ofthe account. AIUI, most providers do take suitable action.Recommending FTP sitesWhen recommending a program, it is useful to give a Garbo orSimtelNet URL whenever possible, because these are effective sitesand are widely mirrored. In particular, Demon users will generallyfind it much more efficient to use the Demon mirrors of these.Always give a URL in full, with the leading "ftp://", "http://", etc.;some readers then recognise the URL as such.Student QuestionsExperts should not give students answers on a plate, but should helpthose who have tried and are perplexed; but there is no needfor a song and dance about it. However, it is often good exercise for astudent to try to extract something worthwhile from the answers of otherstudents.Personal IdentificationUnless there is good reason for confidentiality, give your true nameand your organisation (your own, maybe "Home"; not that of your serviceprovider); otherwise, many of us will tend to disregard what you mayhave to say. Don't assume that we're all in your own country. It can beuseful to give a brief but adequate corporate postal address, but itcould be unwise to give a full home address or telephone number.If you give no clear indication of nationality (in the body of thearticle, the signature, the Organization line, the E-address), then youare likely to be assumed to be (1) an American, (2) therefore moderatelyfamiliar with English.SignaturesA Signature serves two purposes; it indicates that the text hasended, and it can be used to carry useful information. For the firstreason, I recommend the use of at least a termination mark. Goodnews/mail software provides a signature file facility.For the consensus recommendation,see Son-of-RFC1036 section 4.3.2, end;also RFC1855, a.k.a. FYI28; also RFC2646 section 4.3;also RFC3676.There is, for good reasons, a (non-mandatory, but common) conventionon News signature lengths; a signature should consist of no more thanFOUR lines (including all blank lines - watch out for trailing blanks).Reasons : (a) "bandwidth" → byte-count; (b) "scrolling" →line-count. Of course, hardly anyone much minds a slight excess, if thematerial is worthwhile and makes reasonably full use of each line; butlines of dashes are pointless, and both tall thin signatures and "ASCIIart" are annoying - and cost time and money to download, store, andread.Convention (see, for example, in Son-of-RFC1036 (Section 4.3.2, end); orRFC2646; or in Turnpike Offline Help Signatures) is that it should bepreceded by a line containing just "minus minus space"; goodsoftware recognises this, for trimming in replies. If your favourite editor will not keep a space at the endof the line, then use another - Dos6.20 EDIT and WfWg3.11 Notepad areOK; or edit in three minuses and use a DOS DEBUG script to alter thethird to hexadecimal 20.It helps if you normally include your own true name and E-mailaddress, though some authors prefer to disguise the latter to hinderrobo-abusers.Including anything such as "regards," is hypocritical; if and whenyou really mean it, you should type it in before the sig. There islittle sillier than a posting saying, in effect:"You mindless oaf! / Best Regards, / Fred".Do check the spelling in your Signature files carefully!From GNKSA2.0 :-Posting software SHOULD separate any signature appended to outgoingarticles from the main text with a line containing only `-- '("dash dash space"). To quote son-of-rfc1036 :-If a poster or posting agent does append a signature to anarticle, the signature SHOULD be preceded with a delimiterline containing (only) two hyphens (ASCII 45) followed byone blank (ASCII 32). Posting agents SHOULD limit thelength of signatures, since verbose excess bordering onabuse is common if no restraint is imposed; 4 lines is acommon limit.Hence, posting software MUST prevent the user from using excessivelylong signatures, or at least warn the user against it. A widelyaccepted standard is the so-called McQuary limit: up to 4 lines, each upto a maximum of 80 characters.I prefer fewer than 80 (i.e. 79) -one user has a terminal that wraps after 80 characters.Advertising is acceptable in four-line signatures; but it must not bethe reason for sending the article.Anonymous PostingsMy personal practice is generally to ignore them, i.e. tooffer no response, unless anonymity appears justified. This can bemodified if they actually seem sensible and interesting (fairlyunusual); and I will follow up if I think that, for the benefit ofothers, their statements need correction. On any specific occasion I mayignore my own policy (recursively), of course.I apply the same, less strongly, to those without reasonablepersonal names or with silly organisations, to those with stupid orinadequate signatures, to those who post the same article severaltimes in one or more newsgroups, etc., and to those who obviouslyshould be able to write in proper English but choose not to do so.Adage"Be conservative in what you send andliberal in what you receive" (RFC1855/FYI28).Home PageMail: no HTML© Dr J R Stockton, near London, UK.All Rights Reserved.These pages are tested mainly with MS IE 7 and W3's Tidy.This site, http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/, is maintained by me.Head. |
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